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There is plenty of information about keeping a chicken coop clean, but what if the healthiest way to keep chickens didn't involve the daily or even weekly... or even monthly... shoveling and replacing of bedding?
There is plenty of information about keeping a chicken coop clean, but what if the healthiest way to keep chickens didn't involve the daily or even weekly... or even monthly... shoveling and replacing of bedding?
The "Old Timers" will tell
you that the "Deep Litter" method is one of the easiest and
healthiest ways to keep a coop.
Dirt
floors are great for the deep litter method, but "DL" can be done on
almost any solid surface at all. It starts with a good layer of pine shavings.
Instead of cleaning it all out and replacing it when the poop accumulates, one
simply stirs up the bedding a bit with a light rake and tosses another layer of
bedding on top once a week or so.
Think
of it like a lasagna. stir up the bottom a bit and add more on the top.
Ewwww!
Doesn't that stink?
Nope
- not if it's done properly (and not if your chickens are healthy).
You
see, by not removing the waste, good microbes come and make their homes in the
litter. These microbes actually eat and break down the feces and consume
unhealthy bacteria, leaving good bacteria behind! The microbes also help
prevent infestations of lice and mites in your flock. (They won't clean off a
bird already infested - use wood ash on infested birds - but can help prevent
new infestations from occurring.)
Most
folks will clean out their deep litter coops once a year... being careful to
leave a 1 - 2 inch layer of the "old stuff" behind. Leaving a bit of
the stuff that is already composting helps the new stuff begin to break down
and compost too - and that's what you want.
And
what do you get when you clean that year's worth of chicken stuff and bedding
out in the early Spring? You get the perfect compost and mulch to start your
garden.
Surprisingly
your coop will smell more earthy and natural. If done properly in a
well-ventilated coop, there should be no ammonia or "fowl" smell.
Important
points:
- Stir up the bedding to break up any clumps every few days.
- Don't ever use diatomaceous earth (DE) or any other chemical insecticide in the coop bedding! This will kill off the beneficial microbes and nematodes.
- The beneficial microbes can help prevent infestations of mites and lice in your flock.
- Keep layering clean bedding on top of the old bedding.
- Clean out most (but not all) of the bedding once a year - most do this in early Spring and use the compost in their gardens.
Nematodes & Deep
Litter:
Fortunately,
most species of nematodes have no effect, or have a beneficial effect, on
humans and their endeavors. Many species of nematodes are ‘free-living’, living
in soil, sea and freshwater. These feed on bacteria, fungi, protozoans and
even other nematodes,
and play a very important role in nutrient cycling and release of nutrients for
plant growth. Other
nematodes attack insects, and help to control insect pests. In fact, some
nematodes which attack insect pests are reared commercially and released for
the control of certain insect pests as a biological insecticide. A nematode
released to control the Sirex wood wasp has been credited with saving the
forestry industry up to 80 million US dollars per year in Australia.
You
can see that creating a good environment in the coop can promote the growth of
nematodes that can actually feed on the things that often harm our
livestock/chickens. A good, decomposing deep litter system is like having
a great little micro-mini compost heap in your coop. Good ventilation is
key and monitoring the moisture and smell, making adjustments accordingly and
letting nature take its course will help tremendously to grow good things in
the coop instead of bad things that can cause constant and recurring health
problems in a flock. Straw does not compost very well and tends to get
moldy before doing so... not the good kind of mold. Wood shavings take
longer to break down but they tend to stay drier while doing so... good
fluffing and turning in a humid climate can also keep them from forming a
"cap" of moist pockets on the surface that will grow mold beneath the
cap.
Another site with good info on deep litter
ReplyDeletehttp://themodernhomestead.us/article/Deep-Litter-1.html
In the early part of the 20th century even the USDA advocated deep litter & NOT cleaning out the brooder house between batches of chicks, studies showing that each successive batch on the old composting litter was healthier and had less mortality than ones put into disinfected houses on clean litter where the litter was cleaned out regularly/
Then, the USDA got "smarter". No, really, I've read recently that some of the commercial growers are noticing that they have a higher mortality rate (if that's possible) when they put new chicks in disinfected houses. Sorry I don't have a referenc.
DeleteI've read this as well. They have found that chicks thrive better when starting out on some of the old litter and many die from coccidiosis if put on just fresh litter.
DeleteThis is the reason that all my chicks are placed in an outside brooder area~with a foster broody when possible or just hatched by a broody~and that brooder has litter from the last batch still in it.
They are also out on the soils in 2 wks time, free ranging with the big birds.
I live in North Florida and it rains hard everyday almost and the humidity is on average 95 percent, and temp. is 98-101 right now. I use sand during the summer because the pine litter or hay remains wet, moldy,attracts insects and in my opinion is unsanitary (with the high humidity it takes a long time for things to dry). In climates like this it may be better to use sand as your litter and a light coat of bedding that can be raked around and it will eventually break down as long as you don't use too much. (During the fall and winter months when the weather is pleasant and the humidity is not that high, deep litter method works wonderfully and you have mulch in the spring. Just some advice for those living in tropical conditions where your biggest task is keeping your chickens dry.
DeleteNope I live in st.augustine and there's a whole lot of us that use deep litter in North Florida. Your completely wrong and we all raise show birds ;)
DeleteAnd it dang sure dosnt rain everyday in North east Florida either
DeleteI live in The sub-tropics/tropics in Australia. I use deep litter and have no probers with mould. I just stir it up a bit when it's raining. There is good ventilation in my coop.
DeleteQuestion...I live in south LA. Very wet, humid. My property accumulates a lot of water during the rainy season (which is now). I was planning on putting sand in my coop for this reason. I have been reading over all of the great info on this site and was curious about the deep litter method. I am concerned that with all the rain we get here it may be a problem with deep liter, moisture & mold growth. Does anyone have experience with this?
ReplyDeleteMoisture is actually good when it comes to deep litter. It helps your materials compost. In fact, people in very dry climates often have to mist down their litter to keep dust down and to add enough moisture for it to compost.
DeleteThat said, you will have to be careful and watch for mold - a bigger risk in humid areas. Turn your bedding over and stir it up well in the morning so it can air out during the day. Most folks find that works well enough.
If you do start to develop a mold issue, you can try pelleted pine bedding (Equine Pine or TSC has its own brand too). The bedding is meant to be misted with water before use, but in a area of high humidity, DON'T mist it. Just put it in there dry and it *should* prevent things from getting too moist.
Hi I live in England where it is predominantly wet would this dlm work here?
ReplyDeletethanks
lorraine
Lorraine,
DeleteDL should work just fine there. I know of folks in the Pacific Northwest USA who use DL with great success. It is very, very wet in those parts, but the DL does just fine. :)
I live in the high desert of AZ. My coop is currently raised with a welded wire mesh floor and hay bedding that is changed weekly. Should I stop changing out the hay and raking the fenced in free range area? Any poop I see over a couple hours old is dried and crumbly. Will that affect any attempt at DL?
ReplyDeleteJamie -
DeleteIt is solely up to you and what will work best for you. Super-dry climates like yours can be much less conducive to the Deep Litter Method since moisture is necessary for the breakdown of the litter and the nematodes that live within it. It is probably not sensible to spray your litter down with water every few days to make the DLM work, so in your case it may just be best to continue doing what you are doing.
Leigh
I am just starting out with a few mail order chicks...what is the best bedding for my new chicks?
ReplyDeleteProtect your feathered pet from predators by keeping them in chicken houses. Cocoon is the best chicken coops and runs supplier in the whole of UK. To know more about chicken coops and runs you can call us on: 0845 8730253 or you can even order online.
DeleteIve read on Backyard Chickens of people who use DE in the DL method in their coops but you mention in your article that it will kill off the good bacteria. Wouldn't it also kill off the bad bacteria, too? I'm not planning on using it for compost so would I be able to use it just to keep everything dry and pests away? I'm really only interested in the DL method because I don't want to have to clean my coop every week. One day when we have a garden I will be more interested in the compost aspect.
ReplyDeleteIt's not really a matter of compost, but a matter of health for your chickens. (Composting litter can be a secondary benefit!)
DeleteTake a look at this - might help clarify why you'd want to use the DL
http://www.plamondon.com/faq_deep_litter.html
I think it will take long time to build a chicken coops by myself. But, i will try myself and ll let you know about my progress. For the more information visit here:- http://www.chickencoopsandhouses.co.uk/
DeleteHi Freda here from South Africa. Very interesting reading. Please eXplain wat is "DE"?
DeleteDE is Diotomaceous Earth.
DeleteYou can learn more here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatomaceous_earth
I am also wondering about using DL for Chicks. Can I just use the method in my brooder and then move add that litter to the litter in the new coop? I am about to hatch my first chicks.
ReplyDeleteYes - absolutely!
DeleteI have half of the coop floor with Pine shavings and the other half with sand mixed with food grade diomateous (SP) earth...that way they can sand bath which they seem to enjoy daily.Does this sound like a good plan??? My chicks are 5 weeks old
ReplyDeleteFor now this should work. There are two camps on DE and it's use. Some swear by putting it in the coop. Personally I am of the other camp - I believe that the DE in the coop bedding could kill off the nematodes that feed on the larvae of lice and mites.
DeleteDE works because it acts like a sponge. It sucks all the moisture out of bugs and their surroundings, and kills them. If enough is used, it can also dry out the bedding which would render the Deep Litter unable to decompose. Lisa of Fresh Eggs Daily uses it in her coop and has nothing but good things to say about it. I don't use it in my coop, and have nothing but good things to say about my method. LOL! In the end, the choice is yours.
Congrats on your chicks!
Leigh
I've started using the deep litter method and have been spraying the old litter with Lactic Acid Bacteria then I add my new wood chips. So far it works very well, no smell and benificial bacteria growing in the coop. Also been putting LAB in the girls water to get the process started right away. Great info on this site!! Thank you!!
DeleteWelcome to the site, Anonymous! Yes - there are so many advantages to using LABs (for a multitude of things). The microorganisms in LABs help break down the litter while at the same time keeping smells at bay. Your girls will certainly benefit from the LABs in their water too.
DeleteLeigh
I am new to the whole chicken thing. We are doing a ton of research before we take the plunge. I understand most of your acronyms but not LABs. Please advise. Thanks
ReplyDeleteHi Amy! I know you'll love your chickens!
DeleteLAB is just short for Lactic Acid Bacteria. This is the same type of bacteria that you find in "pro-biotics", yogurt, etc., that are so good for helping build our immune system. LABs are wonderful in our (and our chicken's) digestive system.
The way they work is to digest sugars/carbs and they excrete Lactic Acid. In a situation like deep litter, the lactic acid helps lower pH (raise acid levels) and keeps other "bad" bacteria under control by lowering their population in the acidic environment that's created. This happens in your compost as well. The LABs, along with other "decomposers", digest and break down the items into a very healthy soil.
LABs are also the bacteria that create fermented pickles, sauerkraut, and the like. As they do their work, the lactic acid increases which gives those pickles and sauerkraut that tangy, sour flavor. The lactic acid is the preservative that keeps the fermented items healthy and safe to eat. In fact, fermented items are considered more safe than heat canned items because of this process.
Hope that helps and that it wasn't TMI!
I'm in the same boat you were in back in 2013--researching to decide if we invest and build a coop or not. Did you go for it? If so, pros or cons you found?
DeleteNot sure how to sign in on this blog, I keep having trouble. I posted above about the LAB. My name is Joel and I am new to chickens this year but I'm loving it. Anyhow, I've made biochar and am wondering if I can spread it in my coop to "charge" it. The coop is full of nutrients and benificials, which I'd like to populate my biochar. This would also allow the benificials to remain in the litter for basically ever. I'm just wondering if the char in the coop would be safe for the girls?
ReplyDeleteJoel, I know a couple of folks that are doing just that with great success. Stop over to the forum (there's a link at the top of the page in the tabs) and start a topic on using it there. I think you'll get several people who have used it to chime in!
DeleteHi! We are just finishing our coop and run and I am wondering about using the deep litter method. We have a coop that's 4x4 ft attached to a run that's 9 long 4 wide and 6 feet high. The chickens will always be in the coop since we live in the city with a landscaped yard they would destroy. We will only have 3 girls. We are getting them for the eggs and for our granddaughters to learn food doesn't only come from Safeway! So, we have read we should have two nesting boxes with pine shavings in them and to use a plastic wash tub so we can take them out easily to clean. We learned we should have a roost area and put wire floor beneath but then put trays underneath to make removing and cleaning easier. That's all ok in the coop. But should I put 4" or so of pine shaving in the run to do the deep litter method out there? They won't have any dirt to clean off in then...is that a problem? Is this the best way to go? I'd appreciate any advice. We're getting the chickens next week so want to be ready! Thanks...love this blog!
ReplyDeleteI'm not a huge fan of wire floors and you may find your girls like hay in the nest boxes better than they like shavings, but play with it and see what works for you. If your run is covered, then shavings and dried grass clippings from your yard will work nicely. You can create a dust bath area for them in a baby pool or another shallow container. Fill it with a mix of sand, soil and wood ash - they'll appreciate having a place to dust themselves. It will work best if the dust bath area is covered. If not, you'll need to just have an area on the ground so that rain can drain away.
DeleteI hope this helps -
Leigh
Thanks! We'll try that! The coop floor is mostly wood with just a small area of hardware cloth right under the roosting branch. I didn't think wire all over would be comfortable for them...we are covering the run in winter so the dust bath will work! I'm waiting fr our farm support store to get a barred rock pullets and a sex link and one other...I wanted a Wyandotte but they never get them Any advice for layers that are docile/friendly for children?
DeleteI understand about the placement of the hardware cloth. You may want to put a "lip" around the edge of that area - about 4" or more high. This way when you put bedding in your coop, it won't all fall out (or block) the hardware cloth. Chickens dig a lot and will throw the bedding all over the place.
DeleteAs for docile layers, each chicken has her own personality. You can get a docile breed and end up with Attila the Hen, but you can also get a not-so-docile breed and end up with the friendliest hen ever. Many of the notoriously calm and docile breeds also tend toward broodiness, so if you don't want to hatch eggs a few times a year, you don't want a broody breed (Orpington, Silkie, Cochin... ) Perhaps try a Delaware, a White Rock or a Rhode Island Red. All are good egg layers but not notoriously and perpetually broody - though as with anything, there are always exceptions. Be sure your kids handle the chicks from day one - pick them up and hold them a few times a day. This will help keep them friendlier. As they near sexual maturity, they will start to dislike being held, but will still follow you about the run and look to you for treats.
Good luck! Join our forum so you can get faster answers to all your questions as they come up - and with new chicks coming, they will come up - LOL! It's a great (and growing) group of people who prefer a more natural approach - so nobody will tell you to use chemicals and drugs... which is nice!
Join Here
over and over I read DE is like a sponge and sucks moisture out. This is not so, though it could easily be thought of that way. DE works by cutting the soft tissue between the joints of a bug's legs and other joints causing them to basically bleed out. It is almost completely harmless to beneficial organisms living in the soil
ReplyDeleteIt's some of both, really-- the sharp edges cut up the exoskeletons, and then the DE absorbs lipids, not water.
DeleteIs it fine to use this in the run, too? I have the run covered with plastic for the winter, with plenty of ventilation. Currently it has a dirt/sand floor. Sounds like this might keep them warmer, but curious if it is ok "outside" the coop.
ReplyDeleteYes - it is absolutely wonderful to use in runs!
DeleteLeigh
There's more to DL than just turning the litter and adding more. Lime is an important component too: it helps the litter stay crumbly, less prone to caking up, absorbs moisture (hello Florida!), and provides some nutritional value (calcium).
ReplyDeleteThis link was posted before and has a lot of info on the lime aspect: http://www.plamondon.com/faq_deep_litter.html
So, you recommend doing this all year? I have heard that you should only do this in the winter...which we are currently doing and I love this method! SO much easier than replacing bedding weekly. We read on www.fresheggsdaily.com that you keep a 6 inch layer....would you do that through the summer? Maybe not as deep since it creates so much heat? Thoughts?
ReplyDeleteCherylene - I keep my deep litter going year round. I do a big cleaning in the Spring and use what I take out in the garden, but I leave a few inches of the old litter to help keep all the wonderful microorganisms going. These microorganisms can help keep mites and lice at bay as they feed on the larvae. While deep litter does give off a bit of heat, it hasn't been a problem - even in the hottest months of Summer.
DeleteGive it a try! You can always go back to the weekly method if you don't like it. :-) (But I bet you will like keeping your deep litter going year-round!)
Thanks for maintaining this blog on natural chicken keeping methods. Greatly appreciated.
ReplyDeleteI am using DLM in the coop, but am planning on sprinkling the diatomaceous earth all over coop. I really don't understand how the DLM itself can keep mites/lice out of the coop by itself. Maybe on the floor, but what about the perches and corners in the house where there is no DLM?
Also, the DE may kill some of the good microbes, but surely it's better than having lice/mites imo, and food grade DE is one of the best methods for naturally keeping lice/mites out.
If I was to raise new chicks on bedding from the deep litter which was treated with DE, will it still be as beneficial for the chicks as bedding from deep litter which was not treated with DE i.e help prevent cocci etc?
The good nematodes thriving in a healthy deep litter will actually feed on the larvae of lice and mites, thereby helping to control them.
DeleteRemember that DE is hazardous if inhaled, so use caution if you really want to put it in your chicks bedding. Chicks sleep on the ground and could inhale DE that is in their bedding.
I won't tell you not to use DE - if it makes you feel more comfortable to use it than please do so. I am just not a personal fan of DE. :-)
Leigh
I will be getting my first coop with an attached walk-in covered pen/run soon. I've done a lot of reading on deep litter and plan to do that in the pen - without diatomaceous earth. I was planning to do this with a thick layer of sand over dirt though - I've heard it's great for their feet, nails, beaks, and allows liquids to seep in. However, (and pardon my cluelessness), but are you referring to DL in the area in the coop building too - not just the pen/run? Below where they roost? In that case, I'd use pine shavings, and I'd be delighted if this could work within the coop! I've heard of lots of people using a removable shelf below the perches which they pull out and scrape of once or twice a week, but if I could go without a shelf stir things up, that'd be great.
ReplyDeleteLauren - yes - just use pine shavings in the coop and allow the droppings to fall right in. Then just stir it up once or twice a week, and add more fresh bedding on top each week. This will encourage the nematodes to thrive in your litter, and this will naturally keep the number of unwanted bugs (mites and lice) down. :-)
DeleteHi, my name is Sandy and I just started my small farm business this year. I've ordered 130 chickens and guineas. 75 layers, 25 meat and 30 guineas (for pest control); they are all peeps and will arrive 14July14. I want to do the DLM but I also want to use DE in a dust bath. I welcome all advice on how to train and take very good care of my birds. Please help!
ReplyDeleteCongratulations on starting your chicken business. I know you will enjoy them.
DeleteYou can certainly use DE in the dust bath - just remember that it looses effectiveness when it gets wet, so you will need to put fresh DE in regularly.
Join us on our Forum so that all your questions can be answered by our group of natural-minded chicken lovers: Join Our Free Forum HERE.
We look forward to seeing you there!
Leigh
I would be interested to know more about raising chickens and cuys (guinea pigs) together. Since both are a food source suitable to high population densities areas, it would be much more efficient if they can be grown together. If they help reduce each others' parasites, even better.
DeleteThanks you so much for all of the great information! I'm a newbie to the backyard chicken hobby.
ReplyDeleteAt the beginning of the year, I read everything I could get my hands on and I really like the DL method, both for the health of the chickens and also for the compost. However, I was just cleaning up a spot in my coop (because the waterer tipped and spilled out). The deeper shavings are full of little white worms - they almost look like maggots. Should I be worried???? Because, I am.......
The little white worms are probably fly larvae (maggots) but I wouldn't worry. They were likely just there because of the wetness - you said something spilled there? As long as the bedding is turned over regularly and kept fairly dry, this will be a rare thing to see. Don't worry. :-)
DeleteLeigh
The chickens will gobble up the maggots. Extra protein!
DeleteTo Tayyab Mehmood -
ReplyDeleteI had to delete your comment because of the link you posted in it. If you would like to advertise with us, please contact me and we'll work something out.
As for your question, you wrote, "Is it fine to use this in the run, too? I have the run covered with plastic for the winter, with plenty of ventilation. Currently it has a dirt/sand floor. Sounds like this might keep them warmer, but curious if it is ok "outside" the coop."
The short answer is "Yes." The deep litter method will work best if you have a covered run, but that said, tossing piles of leaves, grass and bedding into any run will keep the earth from turning in to a hard packed brick in the summer and a muddy mess in the wet seasons. In fact we have an article on that very thing: How Do I Recondition My Chicken Run?
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteI live in Florida and my coop/pen is only about 1/3 under roof. It has a concrete floor and caged with chain link with chicken wire over that. I want to use the deep litter method but am concerned about the high humidity here as well as the rainy summer we have had. I'm afraid it might get very slippery and I am just an accident waiting to happen. Thanks for any advice and input!!
ReplyDeleteHere's a response I left a while back for someone who lives in LA. My sister also lives in Louisiana and has very similar issues to what you are talking about.
Delete"Moisture is actually good when it comes to deep litter. It helps your materials compost. In fact, people in very dry climates often have to mist down their litter to keep dust down and to add enough moisture for it to compost.
That said, you will have to be careful and watch for mold - a bigger risk in humid areas. Turn your bedding over and stir it up well in the morning so it can air out during the day. Most folks find that works well enough.
If you do start to develop a mold issue, you can try pelleted pine bedding (Equine Pine or TSC has its own brand too). The bedding is meant to be misted with water before use, but in a area of high humidity, DON'T mist it. Just put it in there dry and it *should* prevent things from getting too moist."
Thanks so much!!
ReplyDeleteI noticed there is no mention of hemp chicken bedding. The Urban Chicken in Raleigh, NC is currently testing the deep litter method with hemp bedding in a Carolina Coop behind their shop. I noticed there was a drastic reduction in odor and no dust in there. The owner also said they do not add as much material as pine (wood) shavings or straw, so there is less maintenance. She said she did not have to add anything for over 1 month! I am curious to see you all's thoughts on this material. I know they received it from American Hemp in Winston Salem, NC.
ReplyDeleteHemp... very interesting! I am all for new ideas and natural bedding materials. If I can find any locally, hopefully I can test it out sometime soon. Thank you for bringing it up!
Delete=)
Leigh
Hi, I am interested in the DL method now after reading all this! Except, i was planning to use wire flooring. I know people don't like it for their chickens, BUT I found a polycarbonate poultry flooring that claims to be safe for poultry feet, it will not rust, and it inhibits bacteria growth since it is nonporous. I ordered it today before i read this. So, is it possible to use the poultry mesh flooring AND do the DL method under it where the poop falls? If so, how ventilated does the underside need to be? on all four sides? (some background information: Our coop is already built, but we are modifying it by changing the floor and raising it off the ground 24". Also, the coop is already ventilated, but i like to board up the windows of the coop in the winter to keep them warmer, but i leave some space open for ventilation. The 'under area" of the coop is 4' x 7'. We live in North Texas, so we have 'not too harsh' winters, but it does get below freezing several days, and in the summer we can have several days above 100 degrees) OR, is it ok to have the 'under area' of the coop enclosed on 3 sides and open in the back? This area would then be open to the run. Is that ok?
ReplyDeleteI also read today, that 'lime' should be added to the DL?
I also am wondering about building a dusting box in the open run. Can i build a box and let the dirt be the bottom and then add sand and mulch? How high should the sides be so they don't scratch out all the stuff?
Thanks!!
The deep litter method works best when chickens have access to the litter to scratch about in it... but if the place where the poop drops down is part of the run, it can still work. Be sure you turn the bedding every few days to get a good compost going.
DeleteYour chickens will love a dust bath area! Be sure that it is either covered or that it has really good drainage so it doesn't turn into a swimming pool. Covered is best because they can use it no matter the weather and the dusting materials will stay dry.
Thank you!! After reading your reply, I think I will not use the poultry mesh floor after all! I will just leave the coop floor open to the ground (so basically no floor, just the ground, and then have roosting bars in the coop so they can get as high as they want to roost) and do the DL method on the dirt under their coop. The coop will be enclosed on four sides, but not on the lower 24"- I think I will have just one side open on the lower 24" and they can get in and out of their coop this way, and they will definitely have to scratch in the DL. I am still in shock that this is 'healthier'. Does this make sense and do you think this will work out ok?
DeleteI will make sure to have a cover over the dust bath so they can enjoy!! Thanks!!
Two more questions:
1. the dust bath - build a box and add sand and mulch (any kind of wood mulch?)
2. The DL - add pine shavings to the floor and stir every few days, add more pine maybe once week or so, and add 'hydrated lime'? Do you know anything about this or how much/how often to add?
You are sooooo helpful! Thanks again! I am enjoying reading your other posts. Never heard of a cup waterer! May have to try this too!
Thanks for this article! I've read it before, more than once, and again now that my chicks are 5 days old. I was getting nervous about just turning the pine shavings and adding more--so many warnings about sanitizing weekly. Everything you wrote rings true and makes sense. Still nervous about turning their poop under knowing they dig around in the litter all the time, but am going to give it a try.
ReplyDeleteI am currently torn between the deep litter method or putting sand down in my coop. The floor of my coop is the ground and I usually put down some hay and pine shavings for them to dig around in. I rake it out every week or two. Trying to find a better solution so it's not as dirty and there's less poop on our shoes.
ReplyDeleteOur deep litter, almost 2 months old, is very dry. Doesn't it need moisture to compost? I tried watering just one corner, but am concerned mildew might grow. What about Latic Acid to stimulate the breakdown?
ReplyDeletejust mist it or put fresh grass clippings/ fresh green leaves etc, mine was so dried i watered the hell of out it, if your coop is well ventilated you don't have to worry about mildew!
DeleteIs it necessary to start the deep litter system with a shallow layer first and keep adding layers weekly, or can you begin with a 100% deep litter layer and stir it once in while? My hen house holds 6 inches of litter so i filled it full when i put my hens in. i stir it almost every day to incorporate the fresh droppings into the mix. It's been two weeks since they have been roosting in it at nights and there is no bad odor.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteI just found your web site. Wonderful. I had chickens for 12 years, moved and 3 years later I have just ordered 22. We have always used the deep litter system I heard about from Harvey Ussay. What a gift that was. No smell, easy, and cleaner. Mine was a foot deep. I like it so much I did the same thing in the outside pen. After one year in the outside pen I started to turn over a shovel or two for the girls a day for them to gobble up all the worms in the compost. No mud. They also had pasture access daily.
ReplyDeleteThank you for a wonderful web site.
Thank you. Enjoy getting back into the wonderful world of chickens!!
DeleteWe have had chickens for years and hens that enjoyed life well into their teens. I just realized by reading your site what we have been doing for years has a name...Deep Litter Method. We live in New England and use red cedar ribbon in the pen and coop. The cedar ribbon consists of long flexible curls of wood that the chickens love to scratch around in and lay their eggs. Perhaps because of the texture of the ribbon the chickens tend not to poop in the coop and it adds the pleasant aroma of cedar to their house. The cedar ribbon does break down over time, but does not ever mold.
ReplyDeleteThis blog is great! Yea chicken lovers!
I how can you rectify the smell of ammonia in the deep litter method? I keep adding fresh pine shavings but it doesn't seem to be working. I've just been able to turn my 23, 9 week old chicks into a new 120 square ft coop. Will this adjust itself with time or do I need to add something to the litter. We used the old litter and added another few inches when we moved them.
ReplyDeleteIf you live in a very humid climate, you may need to remove the bedding more often. Otherwise, it is unusual to have too much of an ammonia build up with this method. Does your coop have plenty of ventilation? And good air flow? These things are very necessary for the deep litter method to work.
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Thank you for your response. We live in iIllinois but it is not too humid right now. I do have the 5 gallon watering buckets that have the little nozzles on them and have a very wet spot under them in the morning. I pull dry litter out of the corners and mix it in really well before I redistribute it to another part of the coop avoiding perching areas where the damp litter will be more likely to have more contact with larger amounts of pooh. The litter takes very easily every morning and is still flaky. It doesn't clump at all when you pick it up and try to make a ball out of it. I feel like we have pretty good ventilation. I have 4 windows in one side of the coop and one on the other side but the two sides coop is separated by 4' of OSB on the bottom and 4' of chicken wire on the top. It doesn't seem like I should be having the ammonia smell....I tried to follow all of the guidelines so I'm confused. I saw a picture of litter that was supposed to be "healthy damp" and mine is much dryer than that....
ReplyDeleteI find it is generally best to keep waterers outside and not in the coop if possible. :-)
DeleteThere is also the possibility that you have a very sensitive sense of smell and detect ammonia at levels others might not smell it at. A little ammonia is fine. You just don't want the smell to punch you in the nose and choke you when you walk in the coop.
If you are still in doubt, clean the coop out, put lime or Sweet PDZ down on the floor and start over. Keep that ventilation at max capacity.
I really appreciate you helping me through this. I do have a sensitive nose and have wanted to be sure that I am doing everything to have healthy birds and a clean coop. Then I read about the benefits of deep litter and felt like I could have a better environment for the birds if I went with that method. So many people have posted that it is a "smell free" method that maybe I'm trying to attain that.
ReplyDeleteWhen I stir the litter will the lime get mixed into the litter and be bad for the chickens? What is PDZ? I've read posts that warn against the use of diametrius earth (if that's how you spell it). I've also read about using lactobacillus. I've found this online in powder form. Is that what people mean? Do you sprinkle it in the litter? Thank you for your patience.
Sweet PDZ is a granular form of lime instead of the powdery type which bothers some people with respiratory issues. (I prefer it to lime.) Neither will hurt your birds. Diotomaceous Earth will not hurt your birds either. The only drawback to using any of these things is that it can slow the production of microbes in your litter... but if you truly are having an issue with ammonia, it will help.
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Thank you for see good posting.
ReplyDeleteDoes any one have any info regarding mycoplasma syvoniae and deep litter?
ReplyDeleteI have had my ladies for 1 year and seemed to be doing well with the deep litter, however I just self diagnosed 4 of them with MS. Not sure what to do yet. They have the cloudy eye, bald chest with the looks of a blister forming, a bit sneezy, and the ruffled feather look. Three of the four seem to be handling it well. One is lame with chest blister, swollen hocks and feet. She is going to be culled:(
Some recommend culling the whole flock. Other say you can keep the ones that don't die and your flock will be stronger. MS never goes away. Some treat with antibiotics to keep in under control, but it always comes back.
I wonder if the deep litter causes too much dust or too much of the MS bacteria?
Please help.
Thank you!!!
It is estimated that up to 85% ++ percent of flocks in the US carry MS and/or MG. These diseases are carried by wild birds and it is virtually impossible to prevent your flock from being exposed. (It has nothing to do with your deep litter - I can pretty much assure you of that.)
DeleteCull the sickest birds, but treat the rest. You can use Tylan or Oxytetracycline (or any other broad spectrum antibiotic). Most birds recover completely (though they will always be carriers) but some continue to have respiratory or joint issues. Consider culling any birds that continue to have symptoms after treatment.
Best of luck!
Hello!
ReplyDeleteThanks for managing this site:)
Any suggestions when using the DL method on concrete floors?
May I mix pine shavings and straw?
What do you think about spraying effective microorganisms on the bedding in dry climates?
Thanks so much!
Happy New Year!
Yes - you can effectively manage deep litter on concrete. It works just the same way, but may take a little longer to start breaking down. You can mix hay, straw, shavings, leaves, pine needles... any organic bedding materials can be used. (Cedar chips can cause respiratory issues in young birds or fragile birds, so I avoid it personally.) I think your idea of spraying effective microorganisms on the bedding is a really good one! You can also mist the bedding with water in dry climates to keep enough moisture for the microorganisms to thrive.
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In the Russian people use pangoo biobed to raise pigs.It can make a microbial environment.This environment is formed through mixing microbial strains、sawdust、rice husk and certain nutrients in proportion then make fermentation.It can decompose the waste excreted by livestock and poultry, Meanwhile, this environment can generate heat and eliminate odor.If you need more info, please check here https://www.pangoogroup.com/deep-litter-method/
ReplyDeleteCan I use DL method on a wood floor? Will it rot the floor out? I want to keep the floor as natural as possible so that I can also use the compost for my garden...which is why I opted not to paint it, put linoleum on it, or rubberized roof coat (as others suggested. Also, I assume I will need to put a board trim at the bottom of the coop door to keep the litter from falling out the coop... as the litter needs to be 8 inches deep?
ReplyDeleteYes - you CAN use the DL method on wood floors... provided there is not too much moisture. Sadly, yes... the floor may start to rot after a number of years. Keep an eye on it and do what works best for you. If you live in a dry climate you may never have a problem. If you are in a humid area, the floor may rot much faster.
DeleteHello, I love your site! I had some terrible issues with my hens and lost 75% of my girls. I thought I was doing everything right... then I found your article on fermented feed. They have been eating it for about 10 days now and I can already see a big difference in each remaining hen. Thank goodness!! Now I am trying to win the battle with mites. So many mites!! I can't go near the coop or pick up a hen without getting them all over me. Those poor girls! So now they have sand with wood ash to bathe in ( which they love). Each one has been given a wood ash bath by me (just like Bee said, and they hated it). How do I eliminate them from the coop? I've cleaned and scoured it, dosed it with DE, used essential oils, herbs, dumped a couple of gallons of wood ash in there, sprayed with garlic oil, ... what can I do? I've started wearing a shower cap every time I have to enter the coop just to keep those creepy crawlies out of my hair! Ugh! Thank goodness the neighbors can't see me. I have about 4" of pine shavings in there currently, it has been about 3 weeks since the last clean out and the wood ash is still mixed in with this as well as some DE. Been fighting the mites since early spring.
ReplyDeleteThe mites are awful this year!
DeleteBuy Neem Oil at your local farm store or in the garden section of your Walmart or home improvement store. Mix it with water per the directions and spray the heck out of all surfaces in the coop. Repeat the treatment in a week or so, and keep the dust baths available for the girls!
Thank you for the advice! I will do it today. Should I remove all the litter before spraying everything and replace with fresh shavings or just spray the litter really well?
DeleteSadly, yes. clean out the coop completely and spray every last surface down with Neem Oil before putting clean bedding in. Don't allow the girls near it until each and every hen has been treated again. It's a lot of work, but once you have the issue under control, you likely won't have a bad infestation again once you can stay on top of it.
DeleteHi, I live in Brisbane, QLD Australia and plan on making a small coop with a small run. I was planning to try DLM but was going to leave the run uncovered. Would you advise putting a layer of sand and gravel at the bottom for drainage and then cover with the pine shavings? We do have some wet humid periods in summer but it dries out pretty quick here in Brisbane. Do you think this would be a good method or should I just cover the run? Plan on using some timber sleepers to hold the deep litter in. Sides will be open too. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteAs long as you don't have an abundance of aerial predators, you can leave the run uncovered. Remember - the bigger the better is the rule with both coops and runs. Now, that said, chickens scratch and dig all day long. I do think gravel and sand are a very good idea for drainage. If you put any other materials like pine shavings on top of this, your birds will quickly mix it all in. That's not a bad thing at all. Chances are your run would require very little maintenance at all once built.
DeleteI would like to hear from someone who's raising 100+ chicken using DLM.
ReplyDeleteThank you.
Thanks for sharing this information. Your site is very attractive. People can easily find all stuff easily.
ReplyDeleteHi I have broiler chickens we keep 300 at a time. Our chicken coops have been smelling terrible lately,that we change the sawdust twice a week and it still smells awful. How deep should the sawdust be? It seems to be wet all the time. We are busy building a bigger coop (my chickens have a huge area during the day we only close them in at night) so they can go in and out as much as they want. Its just that the smell is unbearable at times. How do I prevent my new coop from being smelly and wet?
ReplyDelete300 is a lot... especially if you keep them in a coop. As soon as they are a few weeks old, I highly suggest free ranging them!
DeleteSee our article HERE.
Has anyone tried PDZ for bedding? Would it work in the DLM?
ReplyDeletePDZ is a lime-based product used to help freshen very wet and stinky areas. The lime would kill the beneficial microbes... but if you have a moisture issue, it can be used beneath the regular bedding. You don't want it to be exposed to the chicken's feet as it could burn them.
DeleteHow does DL method work to keep out mites & lice etc, if that’s possible? And if not, do you have to dispose of the entire DL, burn it, and start over?
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